Perineum problems

Body: 

Dear Ladies, perhaps I wasn't able to write my question understandably due to my poor English . I am trying to explain. The area between my vaginal opening and anus fell down, it is very low as if there was a cherry under my skin, but I feel that that is firm muscle, part of my round muscle around my "anus hole".
(I'm afraid I haven't managed to explain again...)
My question is, that as a have a low rectocele, and I think this descending of my perineum is because of this, can it be improved by whole women technicques, or not? Thank you your answers in advance.

Budahazya, I'm not really sure about "perineal descent" (the term you used in your last post). What you are describing above just sounds like normal rectocele to me. Whatever it is, yes, you definitely should be doing posture! - Surviving

Budahazya,
With whole woman posture, the pelvic organs are lifted and pulled forward into the lower belly, which should also relieve any pressure on your perineum. I know that with this work, the heaviness and burning I had went away. I am no expert in perineums, but I do remember Christine and others discussing it here on the forum. All I can suggest is to do some more reading on the forum, unless someone else comes along who knows more about it.
You been doing this for a little while, budahazya, how is your posture coming along, and are you feeling any relief from your rectocele?

Aging Gracefully, I"ve been doing this work for months now, and very slowy I started to notice what is good and what is bad for my prolapse. Firebreathing, sitting cross legged and workout with Christine's video lift all my organs immediately, but I don't know how to walk because walking sometimes is bad...And when I am on hands and knees it is a good feeling (heaviness goes away) but the rectocele is worse when I stand up from this position. The biggest problem is that I sit 6 or more hours a day, and I don't find the proper posture, because no matter how "whole womenish" I feel my posture, rectolece is always worse after sitting. So I am stlill struggeling, but I don't give up I put more and more energy into it. I just afraid that I won't catch the proper posture in time, I mean, my prolapse will be very bad by the time I become a whole women "expert", so it will be too late for me...Thank you for asking. How are YOU doing?

Surviving, so is it "normal" with a rectocele, that not only there is a bulge inside of my vagina (sometimes it bulges out of the opening) but there is a bulge between the vaginal opening and the anus?

I really cannot say. Are you talking about two very separate bulges that are distinct from one another? I have never been a looker or a poke-around kind of person, so really not a good one to ask, but if you can give us more description, maybe someone else will have a better reply. - Surviving

Surviving, It is not a real bulge, but the area between the vaginal opening and anus is descending as if the muscle started to fall or loosen. The muscle which is maybe the posterior wall of the vagina.

I can't say for sure, but I think that is a normal sensation with a low rectocele. You do need to keep working on posture. Firebreathing, workouts, getting down on hands and knees, these things are extra tools that help us manage prolapse. But the essential thing is staying in posture all the time, training ourselves to do it until it becomes automatic (which can take awhile!). - Surviving

PS: Remember that a rectocele IS the posterior vaginal wall, bulging out because the rectum is pushing against it from the other side.

Hi Dear budahazya,
I have rectocele. When I started WWP, I lived in the posture, stood, sat and walked in it learning as I went.
After a while I did notice that if I put my hand under my vulva while washing, it had lost the sag that had matched the shape of the curve in my hand while washing before WW. It was as if it had "lifted" somewhat. This I believe was due to the posture which makes the genital area into a wall angled up towards the back rather than a pelvic "floor" parallel to the floor. WW walking exercises and strengthens and protects this area too.
Walking around if you can, getting up from your seat at least every hour, will help.

Walking in WWP as you know, exercises & closes the abdominal wall of muscle all the way down the middle of the front of the body & this helps the vulval area to become more taught in time - in the posture all those muscles will be firmer if you feel your tummy.... with NO effort from you other than standing in the posture.
Also make sure that your clothes are not tight particularly around the belly when sitting, and keep the posture.
( I still correct myself & am mindful of it even now, however my upper body "holds" the posture more automatically now).
All the best,
Aussie Soul Sister

I want to say something that I hope you will understand.

For as long as you have been posting here, almost 2 years, you have been convinced that your rectocele was more serious, more complicated, and just different from other rectoceles. Yet everything that you have said about your symptoms sounds to us like you just have regular normal typical rectocele, pretty much what so many of the rest of us have. Part of the problem may be your English (though I think you do wonderfully - but some of Christine's work is indeed quite technical). The other part is that you have really had a long-term problem learning WW posture and letting it take over.

So please Budahazya, I want you to start right now to tell yourself that there is nothing special about your rectocele, it is just a rectocele. It can be managed just fine with WW posture but you MUST figure out that posture. Go back to the dvds, whatever you have, and do it. You are so afraid of the bulge. Stop being afraid of the bulge. Nothing is going to fall out. - Surviving

I was thinking the same, surviving, but since I don't have a rectocele, I didn't want to presume. It seems like losing the fear of prolapse is at least half the battle, sometimes.
Budahazya, it may be a good idea to get into a routine of doing the dvds and whole woman walking, to help strengthen those muscles, as Aussie Soul Sister and surviving have all ready pointed out.
Getting into a good routine is what helped me deal with my prolapse, and helped me to lose the fear of it, because ever so slowly but surely it just started feeling so much better.
I wish you well.

Dear Surviving and Aging gracefully it is true that fear is my biggest problem (unfortunately I am this kind of woman) but I deeply belive that Christine's work is great and it worths the effort. I am stuck here and although it is maybe true that for me it goes slowly to learn the posture but I do my best. I think there are women who can learn easier and there are women like me who have to be patient to their body. Exercising was always difficult for me because my joints are extremly strict. (perhaps due to my autoimmune arthrtis)
Finally I must say that this community saved my life not only because of the immense help in connection with prolapse, but because of the unique spirit that I found here. The respect of the nature and natural life and free thinking and the goodness which I feel from every word of yours ladies. So, thank you.
Uh, reading back my text I must realise that it sounds very sappy (especially the ending) but I can't make it up differently, so sorry for this romantic ending, but the gist is understandable I think :)

Well my friend, I think this is a lovely post you have written here. I do so want you to let go of that fear. Keep trying. And keep focusing on maintaining that relaxed belly as you go about your day. I am thinking that maybe the exercises are tensing you up. Concentrate more on just walking and going about your day in nice lovely relaxed regal WW posture. You will get there, and we are always here to cheer you on. - Surviving

Hi Budahazya,

Perineal descent was a huge buzz-phrase twelve or so years ago when I was writing STWW, and I guess is still being used in gynecology circles. You could say it describes *all* rectocele, not so much from a woman’s sensibility, but definitely from the perspective of the doctor looking at a prolapsed woman bearing down in the lithotomy position. The doctor sees a bulging pelvic “floor” and sure enough, a diagnostic/surgical category was developed to address this anatomic interpretation. Remember, when you stand up the “floor” is now behind you like a wall, making the concept of perineal “descent” rather obscure.

I remember post-surgery women describing their surgeons “lifting up” their perineums in hopes of having corrected so-called perineal descent. The results were always disastrous, as the surgery is nothing more than hysterectomy coupled with grafting the back vaginal wall to the spine by way of a mesh bridge (sacrocolpopexy). Now, of course, they reinforce with larger pieces of mesh, causing women unbearable suffering. Surviving and Aging Gracefully and Soul Sis are absolutely right. What you describe is none other than rectocele, which there is no surgical cure for.

You say walking aggravates your condition, but it is my belief that walking would be the best thing for you. Not just any walking…but let’s call this…Whole Woman Walking! :-)

When you walk normally with heel-strike-first, there is a subtle downward pull on your tailbone when your heel is stretched out in front ready to take the next step. If your lumbar spine cannot hold a wide-radius curvature, then there is definitely a slight drag, or downward pulling on the low back vaginal wall and perineum. So yes, I believe you when you say that walking is not so good for you.

I would like to suggest that you walk for thirty minutes a day (morning is always best) in WW posture, but using a toe-strike-first gait. Keep your feet pointed straight ahead, and reach out with pointed toes to take long strides. Swing your arms high in counter rotation with every step. I think you will see that walking in this way leverages your tailbone up, and in doing so pulls the affected area forward, improving your rectocele.

In time, if you feel like progressing to running in this toes-first manner, I think you will see that it is one of the best exercises for prolapse!

Wishing you well,

Christine

This is an excellent point, thanks so much Christine! I needed this reminder myself. Making this my mantra for awhile - Surviving

Thankyou so much for this thread - Christine - many thanks for your description of how the body works while walking to manage rectocele.
Since practicing even weight distribution with my feet while standing I now walk the way you describe which is so grounding and spiritual, and have seen a way to work towards running, always having avoided it before WW, in hindsight a good thing!

Here's to WW walking with you all, & running eventually....& dancing too!
Aussie Soul Sister

I think thirty minutes might be too much to start unless you are alternating with heel-strike-first walking. Also...make sure to really stretch the back of your legs out afterward to avoid shortening and tightening through your lower legs and soles of your feet. This only works if you can really stretch your arms into their natural swing while keeping shoulders down, chin tucked, chest lifted. I seem to want to hold the back of my hands facing up when doing this, which makes it looks more like dancing, Soul Sis!

Do you ever have flying dreams dear Wwomen? I just have this sense that if we can dream it, we must be able to do it somehow! Perhaps WW walking is the starting place for learning how to fly. :-)

Love you all Soooo much!!

Christine

Now that sounds lovely, Christine!!

Budahazya, please try to keep the other elements of posture in mind while doing this. Chest lifted and BELLY RELAXED. I believe you are still working on perfecting this, but it is so important above all else. - Surviving

Dear Christine,
Having never thought about it before and doing it naturally the way I will describe, I have looked around for an example of clarification on counter rotation of the arms while walking, and the consensus it that opposite arm for example the left arm swing is forward when the right leg is taking a forward step, and vice versa. It seems to make sense for balance... since WW is a unique approach, is this correct?
WW has made me dare to dream about the possibilities for my body - I am transforming slowly, body & soul...don't like heights very much but with continually improving balance, strength and flexibility, & the start of running, now beyond the sky is the limit, well in my dreams anyway!
Christine - this Whole Woman journey has become very much a spiritual experience!
Thankyou so much,
Much love
Aussie Soul Sister

PS - after going for a walk this morning to test my Q about arms & legs, I found that the opposite arm to the leg worked better, though what one does automatically may not necessary be correct...

Dear Soul Sister,

Yes, opposite arm from leg. This is deeply embedded and how all four legged creatures walk as well. It’s funny to try to walk same arm-same leg…it can’t be done for long or automatically!

WW is definitely a spiritual journey for me too and I am so grateful to be able to help in this way. I believe the angels chose me for the work because I am ornery enough to fight the good fight. I don’t believe awakening is all about peace and love, but also includes standing up for what is good and true. Gynecology has become one of the largest industries on the planet and every day I receive press releases and news articles containing outrageous claims for antiquated, highly damaging treatments.

We are just about to release the Goddess Belly video - at last! It has taken this long largely because it is another part of my life story that is difficult to tell. I have been injured in some of the most brutal ways and even though it is very painful to do, I believe my Soul work is to slowly unravel and share what I’ve learned about life with the world. The work has only just begun!

Thank you with all my heart for being here.

Christine

Really looking forward to purchasing your new video Christine... Thankyou kindly

Dear Christine, thank you so much for describing how to walk. There was a massive ice-storm where I live so we were without electricity for three days and I didn't have internet. So I have just seen your nice comment. I am very grateful for your help. Unfortunately I am not sure if I understand well these two sentences: "really stretch your arms into their natural swing" and "opposite arm from leg". Does it mean that when I walk I have to walk like this: when my left arm is lifted forward it moves together with my right leg, and I have to lift my arms a bit higher than usual? Should my palms face the ground when I lift my arms forward? Thank you very much for your caring attention. Budahazya

What Christine is describing is really just the natural relaxed way to walk. Read it over if it isn't clear because she describes it pretty well. Just stay in Whole Woman posture and don't come down on your heels. - Surviving

I think of it as leading with my toes, and then the heels gently follow. Experiment until it doesn't feel awkward. I think that the more toes and the less heels you can achieve, the better. - Surviving

i was just rummaging around on here after a rather traumatic physio appointment for my pelvic pain, where the physio first intimated that any need to splint / press on perineum of horridly problematic, but then admitted there is nothing they can do anyway... "perineal descent"
i've had things sag down since day one not just as a standard rectocele but over to the side into my perineum, always in one direction, which i now realize is my super tight side...but as someone prone to anxiety, this wasn't a great interaction! argh
having said that, this hasn't gotten any worse over 8 years, if anything it is much better. all about keeping things moving. but i'm loving this walking, and definitely going to try it! i work on the posture still, but this is a wonderful new level.
thanks Christine!